Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Celibacy part deux

I don't not know the laws of etiquette here in blogland and I don't know what is kosher and what is not. But from time to time I will repost as a stand-alone post something I wrote in answer to a comment on a previous post. Here follows the first such, in response a well thought-out comment disagreeing with my Celibacy posting:

I used to think a lot more along the lines of what you said here. But time has a way of changing one's perspective. Seeing good priests leave because they no longer want to "be alone," hearing countless young men say they would definitely consider the priesthood "if they could marry," and facing the prospect of being worked to death as the corps of priests shrink has caused my view to evolve over the past several years.

From what I see, many men feel quite isolated out there. The support of the parish community doesn't necessarily alleviate the sense of loneliness. Certainly a deep prayer life is necessary (without that no one would last) but even very devoted, prayerful men sometimes "throw in the towel."

Others try to deal with their loneliness in quite unhealthy ways. Alcohol is all too often abused. Some priests become obsessed with their "toys" and other material possessions. And celibacy in many instances isn't being lived. It isn't unusual for a man, be he gay or straight, to at some point fail in that department. Some have longterm, "secret" relationships. And in some parts of the world celibacy is joke; it is regularly violated and officialdom just looks the other way.

I am not implying that there aren't good men living celibate lives, fulfilled in their vocation. These would be the ones who have been authentically called to the celibate life by God. But there are many who, based on the evidence at least, appear not to have been truly called.

My chief concern here is that things are quickly reaching a crisis stage. In many Diocese a large "bubble" of priests is rapidly approaching retirement age. In a few years the Catholic landscape in many places is going to look startlingly different. And I can imagine a snowball effect; there could be guys who leave simply because they can't deal with the pressures that are going to placed upon them, further exacerbating an already bad situation.

I really believe the Church has to look honestly at this question.

31 comments:

The Crescat said...

my answer to the celibacy thing was the married priesthood, seeing it work in the Eastern Rites and Orthodoxy. I don't its a bad idea. I haven't been thouroughly convinced otherwise.

However to make such claims can get you quite the com box full of accusations that you aren't a 'real' Catholic.

Terry Nelson said...

I forgot to add in my other comment, this is all the more reason for us to pray for the priests we already have. (Also - I was thinking of Carolina Cannonball when I wrote my last comment. She's pretty traditional, and see, she doesn't have a problem with it.)

Hang in there.

Adoro said...

I have seen some people take comments and make a post from it. I do it all the time, just not usually from my own blog.

Often I will comment elsewhere, and then realize that maybe I want to expand, or it would make a good post with a link to the original.

I've also quoted commenters and used their comments as a springboard as the discussion has taken another tack and could better be addressed in its own post.

Most bloggers maybe consider any comments to be fair game, but I would suggest looking at that somewhat sensitively, esp. if someone is struggling in their faith. I have done things I regret by highlighting some comments, wheras I should have turned the other cheek and perhaps handled the issue in a more "pastoral" manner, rather than highlighting the comment and seeming to vilify the person. Which is not what was intended, but it can come across that way pretty easily.

Melody K said...

As a deacon's wife, I can relate to both sides of this issue. As has been pointed out, there would be some serious problems to be worked out with a married priesthood. One of the biggest would be divided loyalties, as Adoro said in her previous comment. Another would be the amount of education required of a priest. I'm guessing it would be at least 4 years full-time, assuming a prior baccalaureate degree (Father, you would know). For a man with a young family, that would be pretty much impossible. One way around this would be for the man to complete most of his seminary prior to marriage, as Terry mentioned in connection with the Orthodox clergy. Another way would be a late vocation, after the children were older. Finances, of course, are another obstacle. A clergyman's wife had better have her degree in hand, because she's going to be working. Many of the Protestant ministers' wives I know are teachers or nurses, because there is a school and a hospital in just about every town.
Would I stand behind my husband, if married men could be ordained to the priesthood, and he discerned that this was where God was calling him? Yes. Would I have given that same answer as a young mother? No way.

Anonymous said...

Fr. Charles Ledderer, The Dakotas, USA you are impersonating a Catholic priest. Your identity is fictitious. There are people on here that are believing you. I am asking you not to trick people anymore.

Anonymous said...

radiometric age dating [url=http://loveepicentre.com/]nzdating[/url] the benefits of dating really old men http://loveepicentre.com/ asian ladyboy dating

Anonymous said...

measuring bacteria concentration klett reader review [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/luvox.htm]luvox[/url] public health degree http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/serevent.htm how to not get caught smoking weed http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/sarafem.htm
post smoking obesity crisis [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/starlix.htm]starlix[/url] health care rn job agencies [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/categories/healthy-bones.htm]risks for diabetic with teeth extractions[/url]

Anonymous said...

medical patient [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/bactrim.htm]bactrim[/url] tooth pain medicine http://usadrugstoretoday.com/categories/antidepressivo---anti-ansia.htm safety cough cold medicine http://usadrugstoretoday.com/catalogue/a.htm
reconstructive breast surgery in new orleans [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/disclaimer.htm]Online Pharmacy - Safe, Secure, Prescriptions Guaranteed[/url] health club cleanliness checklist [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/catalogue/c.htm]university of pennsylvania medical school computer[/url]

Anonymous said...

m244 pill [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/catalogue/y.htm]medications without a prescription[/url] how does diet affect sleep apnea http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/kytril.htm smoking rate in uk http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/himcolin.htm
intelligent dental marketing [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/anafranil.htm]anafranil[/url] can smoking weed lower sperm count [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/procardia.htm]medical ethical issues articles[/url]

Anonymous said...

http://www.kayceenilson.com/Board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50129 http://www.femdomconnection.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=299162 http://www.ishiguchi.com/cgi-bin/idobata-board/cgi/mainbbs.cgi?num=00024&type=reply http://www.transeurasia.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=212957
http://kozynetwork.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7774 http://koltatech.com/wb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=184948 http://www.beisbolviladecans.com/forum/index.php?topic=7771.new#new http://joinedtogetherradio.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46724
http://www.newdayacademy.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=10064#10064 http://www.amgineriddles.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42192 http://www.mitteformaalne.ee/foorum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75858

Anonymous said...

http://www.fajaede.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27351#27351 http://www.craigseslchinaportal.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=342396 http://www.forum.theworld2012.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46715 http://www.pyropub.com/stoptherape/viewtopic.php?pid=373763#p373763
http://www.best-value-computer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=199495#199495 http://www.gamesiteslist.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25753#25753 http://www.4aaf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3031 http://www.codmods.de/codmodsneu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=27288
http://messelt.se/smf/index.php?topic=144333.new#new http://prtelugusamajam.prayatnam.com/forum/index.php?topic=130900.new#new http://dewanmalukucapelle.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=200387

Anonymous said...

http://meen.in/carisoprodol/carisoprodol-buy
[url=http://meen.in/flonase]drugs that make you sick when you drink caffeine[/url] pictures drug reaction [url=http://meen.in/fluticasone/what-is-fluticasone]what is fluticasone[/url]
psychiatric drug classification http://meen.in/etidronate/etidronate-disodium
[url=http://meen.in/carisoprodol/information-on-carisoprodol-being-a-controled-substance]community care rx prescription drug plan[/url] environment health courses [url=http://meen.in/felodipine/felodipine-bioequivalence-study]felodipine bioequivalence study[/url]
list of drugs filtered out during dialysis http://meen.in/ciprofloxacin/ciprofloxacin-500mg-tablets
[url=http://meen.in/erythromycin/erythromycin-qtc-prolongation]health benefits of sesame seeds[/url] barak obama drug use report [url=http://meen.in/carisoprodol/bontril-carisoprodol]bontril carisoprodol[/url] advair canadian drug prescription [url=http://meen.in/fluvoxamine/fluvoxamine-sexual]fluvoxamine sexual[/url]

Anonymous said...

reebok dmx basketball shoes http://topcitystyle.com/?action=products&product_id=1939 fashion diginers [url=http://topcitystyle.com/grey-pink-color129.html]web site designer software[/url] men showering in clothes
http://topcitystyle.com/multi-color-polo-shirts-color180.html information on australia clothes [url=http://topcitystyle.com/?action=products&product_id=2270]crochet cabbage patch clothes[/url]

Anonymous said...

song lyrics to fashionista http://topcitystyle.com/multicolored-versace-color13.html best ever designer dewy foundation [url=http://topcitystyle.com/burberry-on-sale-brand4.html]boots to go over shoes[/url] model jennifer lauren
http://topcitystyle.com/men-page73.html oasis clothes [url=http://topcitystyle.com/-scarfs-amp-hats-category58.html]fitness equipment designers in northeast ohio[/url]

Anonymous said...

khaki travel skirt http://adventurecollection.in/airline/best-airline-travel-bag easy appetizers that travel
[url=http://adventurecollection.in/disneyland/disneyland-at-orlando]if you had money where is your dream travel[/url] st andrews golf travel [url=http://adventurecollection.in/cruise/stockton-dinner-cruise]stockton dinner cruise[/url]
active duty space a travel http://adventurecollection.in/tour/rodney-carrington-comedy-tour
[url=http://adventurecollection.in/tours/wine-tasting-tours-tasmania]colombia travel[/url] forest river travel trailer dealers virginia [url=http://adventurecollection.in/lufthansa/information-on-boeing-company]information on boeing company[/url]
best deal travel packages http://adventurecollection.in/inn/holiday-inn-titusville-florida insulated coffee travel mugs [url=http://adventurecollection.in/airlines/airlines-montreal-boston]airlines montreal boston[/url]

Anonymous said...

machine dildo video clips http://xwe.in/gay-boy/gay-spas-chicago-area
[url=http://xwe.in/gay-anal/ghent-gay]shooting an adult video[/url] star trek hentai games [url=http://xwe.in/girl-anal/lexy-from-amateur-anal-9]lexy from amateur anal 9[/url]
temptation 1 hentai game http://xwe.in/girl-anal/extreme-anal-bondage
[url=http://xwe.in/girl-anal/anal-sac-expression]buy sexy lpjs[/url] sexy beautiful mature [url=http://xwe.in/ass-sex/ass-games]ass games[/url]
nezumi furry hentai http://xwe.in/nylon
[url=http://xwe.in/ass-sex/puerto-rican-ass]atlanta adult night clubs[/url] google adult games [url=http://xwe.in/bbw/bbw-bondage]bbw bondage[/url]
adult amature free sex http://xwe.in/oral/como-hacer-bien-el-sexo-oral
[url=http://xwe.in/oral/oral-b-triumph-9450]sexy ass porn video[/url] sexy beautiful celebs [url=http://xwe.in/erotic-stories/artistic-erotic-photographs]artistic erotic photographs[/url]

Anonymous said...

asatru clothes http://www.thefashionhouse.us/galliano-round-neck-brand33.html beach wedding clothes [url=http://www.thefashionhouse.us/?action=products&product_id=1400]chic career clothes[/url] best clothes dryer
http://www.thefashionhouse.us/blue-and-grey-color145.html henry laurens charleston [url=http://www.thefashionhouse.us/?action=products&product_id=1924]bratz fashion dvd[/url]

Anonymous said...

chanel handbags http://luxefashion.us/?action=products&product_id=967 kleingliedrig [url=http://luxefashion.us/36-women-size14.html]cad designer overtime[/url] computer design fashion software
http://luxefashion.us/green-brown-men-color125.html boogie wonderland boogie fever boogie shoes [url=http://luxefashion.us/energie-brand65.html]clothes female want nude male[/url]

Anonymous said...

world record breast lacation [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/revia.htm]revia[/url] breast archive http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/paroxetine.htm
homemade orgasm [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/aciclovir.htm]aciclovir[/url] penis flopping [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/diclofenac-gel.htm ]beachhouse health [/url] hamilton medical center wescott outpatient
blood type ab [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/menopause-gum.htm]menopause gum[/url] smoke on the mountain homecoming http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/lamisil.htm
social anxiety disfunction wikipedia [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/rumalaya.htm]rumalaya[/url] black diet pills in the 1980s had 3 8s printed on them [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/index.php?lng=en&cv=us ]the immune sytem [/url] merck prescription assistance

Anonymous said...

insole shoes http://www.thefashionhouse.us/black-grey-green-sweaters-color230.html outdated nike shoes [url=http://www.thefashionhouse.us/on-sale-page37.html]merrell shoes[/url] full fashioned stocking
http://www.thefashionhouse.us/dark-grey-jeans-color16.html free business card designer [url=http://www.thefashionhouse.us/?action=products&product_id=492]fashion for men over fifty[/url]

Anonymous said...

victims of health and physical crisis counseling techniques [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/premarin.htm]premarin[/url] research methods anxiety http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/yasmin.htm
green tea or black tea for pinkeye [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/catalogue/j.htm]No prescription online pharmacy[/url] university of arkansas medical school [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/rogaine-2-.htm ]morning mist tea [/url] vitamin b histine
medical docters slary range [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/copegus.htm]copegus[/url] breast cacer deaths http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/glyset.htm
pill imprint code search [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/products/betnovate.htm]betnovate[/url] premenstrual dysthymic disorder [url=http://usadrugstoretoday.com/catalogue/a.htm ]sand infection [/url] privacy issues in medical research

Anonymous said...

http://xwp.in/casodex/casodex-medikament
[url=http://xwp.in/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-in-movie-theater-popcorn]compare cialis levitra viagra[/url] erectile disfunction penis extender http://xwp.in/differin/differin-ge
perscription drugs at discount prices http://xwp.in/carisoprodol/carisoprodol-tabletsmg
[url=http://xwp.in/anacin/ansaid]caseyville illinois drug rehabitilitaion[/url] pharmacy theft http://xwp.in/amitriptyline/what-are-the-side-affects-of-amitriptyline
online medicines rx cialis viagra order http://xwp.in/diflucan/diflucan-one-dosage
[url=http://xwp.in/differin/differin-face-cream]mall drugs[/url] drug stores open late in brisbane http://xwp.in/cardizem/amiodarone-and-cardizem the causes people to begin using illegal drugs http://xwp.in/ceftin/ceftin-order-online-no-prescription

Anonymous said...

http://xwv.in/pamelor/pamelor/for/headaches
[url=http://xwv.in/loratadine/lorine/loratadine]what is a formulary drug[/url] drug testing trials [url=http://xwv.in/paroxetine/paroxetine/wholesale]paroxetine wholesale[/url]
pharmacy board complaints http://xwv.in/ivermectin/ivermectin/dose
[url=http://xwv.in/naltrexone/delta/7/naltrexone/toxicity]dopamine and drugs[/url] mullins sent to prison for drug possession [url=http://xwv.in/lipitor/taking/lipitor/at/bedtime]taking lipitor at bedtime[/url]
how much to kits cost that clean you out before a drug scree http://xwv.in/ultram/ultram/nsaid/opiod
[url=http://xwv.in/pain-relief/frozen/shoulder/relief/pain]sexual treats male levitra[/url] precautionary safety measures in using antiviral drugs [url=http://xwv.in/pain-relief/minor/muscle/pain/relief]minor muscle pain relief[/url] levitra overdose [url=http://xwv.in/nervousness/nervousness/symptoms/and/causes]nervousness symptoms and causes[/url]

Anonymous said...

gambling bonuses play blackjack games http://xwn.in/poker-online_poker-player-grades kansas city casinos
[url=http://xwn.in/betting_premiership-betting-exchange]used real casino nickel slot machines[/url] twin pines casino [url=http://xwn.in/jackpot_victory-jackpot-cables]victory jackpot cables[/url]
september 22 2007 lottery http://xwn.in/keno_keno-spille
[url=http://xwn.in/betting_breeders-cup-betting-info]win blackjack[/url] oversized playing cards [url=http://xwn.in/roulette_roulette-games]roulette games[/url]
three eyed bingo http://xwn.in/online-casinos_paramedic-coverage-in-casinos game blackjack software [url=http://xwn.in/jokers_black-and-white-jokers]black and white jokers[/url]

Anonymous said...

play baccarat free http://wqm.in/online-casino_free-casino-games-download why gambling should be legal everywhere in florida
[url=http://wqm.in/poker-online_zen-of-poker]lucky couple hits second lottery jackpot[/url] mississippi gambling off i 10 [url=http://wqm.in/jokers_jokers-mcc]jokers mcc[/url]
bingo i 81 martinsburg wv http://wqm.in/online-casinos_montreal-casinos
[url=http://wqm.in/betting_sport-book-betting-tips]blackjack chipc[/url] amy blackmarr gambling [url=http://wqm.in/poker-online_yahoo-poker-com]yahoo poker com[/url]
internet casinos http://wqm.in/joker_always-a-joker-in-the-pack lottery mega millions nj [url=http://wqm.in/online-casino_gambling-internet-slots-casino-crist-indian-horse]gambling internet slots casino crist indian horse[/url]

Anonymous said...

new casinos university of illinois area http://lwv.in/lottery/lottery-results-florida salt lake nearest casinos
[url=http://lwv.in/roulette/roulette-spelen]free lottery number picker[/url] bingo variant [url=http://lwv.in/baccarat/baccarat-crystal-lighting]baccarat crystal lighting[/url]
chatmag bingo http://lwv.in/baccarat/how-to-play-baccarat-online
[url=http://lwv.in/slots/snow-bunny-slots]the kings on playing cards[/url] wheeling downs casino [url=http://lwv.in/casino-playing-cards/lenormand-cards-by-playing-cards-sample-reading]lenormand cards by playing cards sample reading[/url]
national bingo yahoo7 http://lwv.in/jackpot/lottery-ticket-jackpot-travel bingo 33 [url=http://lwv.in/jokers/vietnam-helicopter-pilot-jokers]vietnam helicopter pilot jokers[/url]

Anonymous said...

the movie on the grind [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_rules_of_engagement/]rules of engagement[/url] movie escape from la http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_tmnt/ movie world queendland
movie reveiw of my life without me [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_woodland_caf/]woodland caf[/url] fraternity row movie http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_interferencia/ halloween movie audio clips
movie pride and prejudice [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants/]the sisterhood of the traveling pants[/url] movie silver spring md
carmen electra movie clip milk [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_training_day/]training day[/url] movie quotes from deliverance http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_xxx/ the disney movie cinderella analyzed
a night in heaven online movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_spirit/]the spirit[/url] tmc the movie channel http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_cured_duck/ blazing saddles movie

Anonymous said...

list of movie sex scenes [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_sinbad_legend_of_the_seven_seas/]sinbad legend of the seven seas[/url] mp3 downloads movie themes http://moviestrawberry.com/hqmoviesbygenres/download-genre_comedy-movies/?page=22 fast food nation movie poster
download free bollywood movie red swastik [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_blue_collar/]blue collar[/url] ten movie against jesus http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_azumi/ trick or treat the movie
movie theaters in cary nc [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_bob_the_butler/]bob the butler[/url] the dark tower movie
porn movie thumbs [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_kaze_no_tani_no_naushika/]kaze no tani no naushika[/url] best rated free full length movie site http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_black_balloon/ dealers movie
cool runnings the movie images [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_long_weekend/]the long weekend[/url] soundtrack to movie crystal http://moviestrawberry.com/hqmoviesbygenres/download-genre_drama-movies/?page=62 latina movie galeries

Anonymous said...

risk movie wallpapers [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_cocaine_cowboys/]cocaine cowboys[/url] lost and found movie music http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_murder_loves_killers_too/ movie mystic pizza
movie home alone pics [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_baby_mama/]baby mama[/url] bizare porn gallery movie http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_dirty_love/ watch free dead silence movie
who play in et the movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_an_extremely_goofy_movie/]an extremely goofy movie[/url] free porn movie watch
movie studios las colinas [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_dorothy_mills/]dorothy mills[/url] movie drama from 1952 http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_rounders/ zelda the movie
download caligula movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_control/]control[/url] characters in the movie kill bill http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_naked_truth/ latham circle cinima movie times

Anonymous said...

dildo movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_man_from_snowy_river_ii/]the man from snowy river ii[/url] movie theatre manchester new hampshire http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_american_splendor/ simpons movie
mysterio in spiderman movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_white_heat/]white heat[/url] movie daag songs http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_rachel_getting_married/ work out in the movie 300
live action ben 10 movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_nite_tales_the_movie/]nite tales the movie[/url] grand forks carmike ten movie times
ahlynn brooke free movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_wasabi/]wasabi[/url] movie freak worm man eyeball cops http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_once_upon_a_crime/ movie theater boston massachusetts
myan movie [url=http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_secret_of_nimh/]the secret of nimh[/url] indian movie land http://moviestrawberry.com/films/film_the_seduction_of_dr_fugazzi/ the lost boys 2 movie

Anonymous said...

animated celebrity porn miley cyrus drawn miley cyrus porn